tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7643094642989252160.post2312060621701396746..comments2023-10-30T09:11:24.807-05:00Comments on Deep In The Heart: Music in the Church, or Kickin'it Old StyleAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01889650575894749132noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7643094642989252160.post-57310068748964421702010-07-12T00:43:46.942-05:002010-07-12T00:43:46.942-05:00I think you've made a great point, RAnn -- rev...I think you've made a great point, RAnn -- reverence is sought, and it can be found, or not, in pre-Vat2 or post-Vat2 liturgies. <br /><br />Perhaps there's no disputing taste, but much of the contemporary (actually 70s & 80s) P&W music used in Mass just doesn't strike me as reverent. While I guess you could consider P&W to be sacred pop, it is at the bottom of the totem pole for the music to used at Mass. That's not a taste guideline; it's a Vatican guideline, Musicam Sacram.<br /><br />"60. The new melodies for the vernacular texts certainly need to undergo a period of experimentation in order that they may attain a sufficient maturity and perfection. However, anything done in churches, even if only for experimental purposes, which is unbecoming to the holiness of the place, the dignity of the liturgy and the devotion of the faithful, must be avoided."<br /><br />I'm sure there's some room for interpertation in that (like how "Credo" can be translated as "We believe" and not "I believe"), but it'd be an interesting experiment to place Tantum Ergo alongside Gather Us In and let an outsider to the church pick which one sounds reverent and which one sounds unbecoming to the holiness of the Church.<br /><br />http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_instr_19670305_musicam-sacram_en.htmlChrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14790622184745439282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7643094642989252160.post-53252412657887993612010-07-11T23:07:50.402-05:002010-07-11T23:07:50.402-05:00Continued:
I don't doubt that a lot of baby g...Continued:<br /><br />I don't doubt that a lot of baby got thrown out with the bathwater after VII but I also wonder how much of what we now think of as pre-VII is only a small slice of it--or a reconstruction of form, but not reality. What I mean by that is that today's young people who long for pre-VII-type liturgies often are seeking reverence and a more spiritual experience. While there is no doubt that today's liturgy can be celebrated in a manner that is irreverant, was the reverence they are seeking a normal part of the masses said daily/weekly by common priests? I've heard many people tell of going to mass to read their prayer book or say the rosary--not really attending to what what was happening until the bells rang for the consecration. In some ways it is understandable--an un-miked priest standing with his back to you speaking a foreign language couldn't have been heard much further back than the first few rows, if that. My dad once told me the latest mass on Sunday morning was called the drunkards mass. The lowest priest on the totem pole got stuck with it because he couldn't heat until after mass, and the folks who came were those who were out rather late Sat. nite, and few went to communion. <br /><br />I guess what I'm saying is that I understand what people think is missing in the mass as it is often celebrated today, but that all was not perfect in the old days either.RAnnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04102249990885174107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7643094642989252160.post-41654567631295721542010-07-11T23:07:33.551-05:002010-07-11T23:07:33.551-05:00I'm in the middle in the liturgical wars in a ...I'm in the middle in the liturgical wars in a lot of ways. First of all, I was born pre-VII, but really don't remember those times. My first memories of church music are all in English and include Holy God We Praise Thy Name and Praise to the Lord, the Almighty the King of Creation... as well as Here We Are and Sons of God (if you are too young to remember the last two, you didn't miss anything) My college years were my introduction to the Glory and Praise hymnal, and now the teen mass in my parish uses praise and worship music, which probably does more to lift my heart to the Lord than most of what the more traditional choir's music (an eclectic selection accompanied by the organ) does.RAnnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04102249990885174107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7643094642989252160.post-29348208035484774222010-07-11T23:06:47.984-05:002010-07-11T23:06:47.984-05:00I'm in the middle in the liturgical wars in a ...I'm in the middle in the liturgical wars in a lot of ways. First of all, I was born pre-VII, but really don't remember those times. My first memories of church music are all in English and include Holy God We Praise Thy Name and Praise to the Lord, the Almighty the King of Creation... as well as Here We Are and Sons of God (if you are too young to remember the last two, you didn't miss anything) My college years were my introduction to the Glory and Praise hymnal, and now the teen mass in my parish uses praise and worship music, which probably does more to lift my heart to the Lord than most of what the more traditional choir's music (an eclectic selection accompanied by the organ) does. <br /><br />I don't doubt that a lot of baby got thrown out with the bathwater after VII but I also wonder how much of what we now think of as pre-VII is only a small slice of it--or a reconstruction of form, but not reality. What I mean by that is that today's young people who long for pre-VII-type liturgies often are seeking reverence and a more spiritual experience. While there is no doubt that today's liturgy can be celebrated in a manner that is irreverant, was the reverence they are seeking a normal part of the masses said daily/weekly by common priests? I've heard many people tell of going to mass to read their prayer book or say the rosary--not really attending to what what was happening until the bells rang for the consecration. In some ways it is understandable--an un-miked priest standing with his back to you speaking a foreign language couldn't have been heard much further back than the first few rows, if that. My dad once told me the latest mass on Sunday morning was called the drunkards mass. The lowest priest on the totem pole got stuck with it because he couldn't heat until after mass, and the folks who came were those who were out rather late Sat. nite, and few went to communion. <br /><br />I guess what I'm saying is that I understand what people think is missing in the mass as it is often celebrated today, but that all was not perfect in the old days either.RAnnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04102249990885174107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7643094642989252160.post-69348678941891124382010-07-11T17:14:21.294-05:002010-07-11T17:14:21.294-05:00I prefer Latin or traditional choral music & h...I prefer Latin or traditional choral music & hymns during Mass as well, like Mozart's Ave Verum, Adoro Te Devote, and Hail Holy Queen Enthroned Above. I find that this kind of music brings me closer to God in prayer. I don't care too much for contemporary church music. Though having grown up in the church in the '70s, some songs from my childhood like "Yahweh, I know You are Near," still help me in prayer. But overall, I prefer the beauty of traditional, solemn liturgical music. I agree with one of the commenters above that we have enough entertainment as it is in our culture.Sweetums5http://naturalrelaxedhomelearning.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7643094642989252160.post-43431411286983355112010-07-11T14:41:51.671-05:002010-07-11T14:41:51.671-05:00I have a strong background in liturgical music and...I have a strong background in liturgical music and can say that the Church has a number of official publications regarding what sacred music ought to be. Sacred. Not the radio and street stuff. Not bongos and kettledrums in the sanctuary. Adoremus Bulletin has a lot of very good information on the subject for anyone who is interested.Barb Schoenebergerhttp://www.sufferingwithjoy.com/blognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7643094642989252160.post-63790491854229337292010-07-11T13:53:45.824-05:002010-07-11T13:53:45.824-05:00The chant is beautiful and pieces of it should be ...The chant is beautiful and pieces of it should be reclaimed, but the Spirit didn't didn't stop inspiring at some point pre- (or post-) V2, either. There is value in every era & style of music, and where one person may be moved to tears by chant, another is so moved by P&W. Neither of those is wrong, and we as catholics (little c) must be as universal as our name. There's nothing as powerful as Pange Lingua sung a cappella on Holy Thursday--unless it is "Sanctuary" sung by 850 schoolkids in harmony.<br /><br />Kate (the former full-time liturgy woman)Kathleen@so much to say, so little timehttp://www.kathleenbasi.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7643094642989252160.post-6591678345123940612010-07-11T13:53:45.373-05:002010-07-11T13:53:45.373-05:00The chant is beautiful and pieces of it should be ...The chant is beautiful and pieces of it should be reclaimed, but the Spirit didn't didn't stop inspiring at some point pre- (or post-) V2, either. There is value in every era & style of music, and where one person may be moved to tears by chant, another is so moved by P&W. Neither of those is wrong, and we as catholics (little c) must be as universal as our name. There's nothing as powerful as Pange Lingua sung a cappella on Holy Thursday--unless it is "Sanctuary" sung by 850 schoolkids in harmony.<br /><br />Kate (the former full-time liturgy woman)Kathleen@so much to say, so little timehttp://www.kathleenbasi.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7643094642989252160.post-73244526496304239242010-07-11T13:05:22.011-05:002010-07-11T13:05:22.011-05:00I am always in favor of a song the congregation so...I am always in favor of a song the congregation sounds good singing.kkollwitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17691145638703824456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7643094642989252160.post-12972611021583980532010-06-29T22:12:28.000-05:002010-06-29T22:12:28.000-05:00I like the oldies, Immaculate Mary, Holy God, We P...I like the oldies, Immaculate Mary, Holy God, We Praise Thy Name, the songs that reflect our Catholic identity and seem like a prayer being sung. The ones I really don't like are the ones that seem adapted or are from Protestant Churches. I think many of them are fine songs, but appreciate those that really reflect the unique aspects of our faith, especially at the Mass. I also don't prefer the ones that seem to use the pronoun I for God...just a preference.Melissahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04308320051071011808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7643094642989252160.post-45058194040549033412010-06-29T01:46:13.854-05:002010-06-29T01:46:13.854-05:00I love our choirs, but not the music they sing. It...I love our choirs, but not the music they sing. It's really a shame, for the choirs do work hard and can only do so much with the music that is provided for them.<br /><br />Patty, not sure about a new guideline, but Musicam Sacram still holds.<br />http://www.adoremus.org/MusicamSacram.html<br /><br />It's the document that says that Gregorian chant should be given "pride of place" (50a). Hmmm ... that's a rather radical idea.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14790622184745439282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7643094642989252160.post-72694988774370821182010-06-28T08:43:38.560-05:002010-06-28T08:43:38.560-05:00I agree with Dorothy. Sadly, the interpretation o...I agree with Dorothy. Sadly, the interpretation of Vatican II ushered in a watered-down version of the faith. We lost at least one generation of believers, a generation of nuns and priests, and the Blessed Sacrament was pushed, sometimes, out of sight...away from the sanctuary. Isn't there a new "guideline" book printed or ready to be printed on the proper use of liturgical music? I remember hearing about it at least four years ago. The truth can certainly be found in our generation. Look how many of us feel we are "missing" or "lacking" and wanting the tradition back. Keep praying for strong leadership in our Pope, and that the Holy Spirit continues to guide us back to our roots. We can certainly see the Holy Spirit working through great men like Archbishop Chaput.Pattyhttp://www.reasonsforchocolate.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7643094642989252160.post-5858134983636357872010-06-27T21:03:52.813-05:002010-06-27T21:03:52.813-05:00Have you read Living the Catholic Faith by Archbis...Have you read Living the Catholic Faith by Archbishop Chaput? One of the best descriptions of how music at the mass should be is in there. The music is not meant to entertain us, it is meant to lead us in prayer. I have entertainment thrown at me 24/7, when I go to mass I want to focus, I want the music to lift me and bring me closer to perfect prayer. I want it to make me remember where I am and who I am standing (or kneeling)before. That has never happened with contemporery music. It IS enjoyable, and I DO find myself clapping along or toe tapping or what have you, but what I don't find is more important. It does not move me to tears, it does not take my breath away with its beauty or send my heart spinning until it is directly linked to the tabernacle. You are so very right when you say that our generation (born in the 70's myself) feels the void left by the well intentioned after Vatican II.mandd3https://www.blogger.com/profile/12980601924572371748noreply@blogger.com